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Stubbo 8:06 Mon Sep 19
The midfield 5
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What should we do with the midfield? It feels like that is the part of the team that's not working.
We're not keeping possession, not recovering possession, not creating clear cut chances.
For me we have to change the role of Rice and Paqueta.
Rice has to reverse to a proper midfield destroyer role....win it, and give it.
Paqueta may not have shown his attacking prowess yet, but he's shown he's prepared to dig in, is no slouch in the air, and not afraid of a physical battle. Given our slim pickings, he has to start partnering Rice in midfield instead of Soucek.
This makes space for Benrahma, who's been our most likely creative outlet this season to play either on the left, or at 10.
Alongside him, we need to get Cornet starting. He's shown through his career he's not afraid to dig in and do the defensive side when he's played wingback, and he's the main player we've had getting in clear cut goalscoring positions. Time for him to replace Fornals.
Lastly, Bowen. He's simply not performing or threatening. Scamacca has at least hit goals in the Conference league and replaces Soucek's aerial threat in the side if he comes in, allowing Antonio to shift to wide right. We then end up with two wingers playing on their correct sides, offering pace and power on the flanks, artistry and trickery in the middle, a proper CF, and a playmaker alongside arguably the best DM in the league.
-----------Rice---Paqueta
Antonio---Benrahma---Cornet
---------------Scamacca
Back that up with our regular defence, irrespective of whether it's Cresswell at LB (who is valuable for his deadball delivery) or Emerson for his ability to get down the line and into the box, and we start to have the makings of a threatening side, with some real threat.
But the key is moving Paqueta to 8, and playing Rice as a proper 6 again.
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
jack flash
11:47 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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Downes had a good game in the ECL, but it isn't just that
The strength of the partnership of him and Rice was immediately obvious for everyone to see, just on the strength of one game!
Maybe Downes won't play as well as that for the rest of the season, but when you get that certain 'Chemistry' or understanding between 2 players you don't just break it up after one game, you persevere with it
Dropping Downes for the consequent games was just a downright stupid decision, though Moyes would never admit it
I'm not entirely blaming Soucek for our complete loss of form because there are also other reasons, but the understanding between him and Rice, which was previously so strong, just isn't there and Rice isn't playing well as he's getting isolated in midfield, having to do it all himself
Our entire team, particularly in midfield, looks to have run out of steam and has just stopped running
The players look like they just can't be bothered
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Willtell
10:36 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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Exactly ED.
Last game we had 11 on the park but 1 was finding his way and 2 just made the numbers up. You need 11 playing to beat even a weak team like Everton at moment
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Eerie Descent
10:00 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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"much as we all want Downes to succeed, we shouldn't get too excited about one good performance in the ECL"
I don't think anyone was excited by it, I just think they noticed a player that can run, make room to receive and pass a football, as opposed to Soucek, who quite frankly looks like he'd struggle to get in the Cowdenbeath team at the moment.
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Nagel
9:39 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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the exile 1:21 Tue Sep 20
You never want to see Antonio as a RWB, but you do want to put a left footed player in Cornet there? Are you sure?
I wouldn't mind us playing 352, but we don't have the personnel for it, with the possible exception of Cornet at LWB. Emerson is about as good as Coufal, maybe worse. Probably our best full backs currently are Johnson and Kehrer and neither one are good enough at attacking to make that formation work.
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Manuel
5:03 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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There is way too much emphasis placed on formations and tactics by some, at the moment it won't matter a fuck what are tactics and formation is, ain't gonna make a shred of fucking difference? I couldn't give a fuck about our 'midfield 5'.
Moyes OUT.
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the exile
1:21 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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I think most of us are agreed that we want to see Antonio and Scamacca in the same side. I would be happy to see Antonio on the wing in a 4-2-3-1 but never as a wing-back.
Alternatively, I like the look of a 3-5-2 formation, with a front two of both strikers with Bowen rotating in or covering for either of them.
In the midfield, much as we all want Downes to succeed, we shouldn't get too excited about one good performance in the ECL. He has to show that he can do it consistently, but why Moyes didn't give him at least 25 minutes against Silkeborg is indeed a mystery. Soucek keeps his place for now but is living on borrowed time. I'm losing patience with Fornals and Lanzini - both should be squad players - not good enough to be regular starters. Pacqueta starts as the other midfielder with Cornet and Emerson as wing-backs.
The back 3 should not include Cresswell - his lack of height and pace rule him out. What we need is Zouma or Dawson as the central CB linchpin, with the more mobile Kehrer on the right and Aguerd (when he's back) on the left, Ogbonna for now.
- Areola -
- Kehrer Zouma/Dawson Aguerd/Ogbonna -
Cornet Pacqueta Rice Soucek Emerson
- Antonio/Bowen Scamacca -
I appreciate that there's no obvious place for Benrahma in this, but I wonder if he might sometimes work as a 10 behind Scamacca or Antonio. Again, shouldn't be a regular starter, but could be very effective coming off the bench.
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CryBabies
1:06 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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Do you not think Lanzini and Paqueta showed glimpses of understanding when they played together?
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Alfs
12:28 Tue Sep 20
Re: The midfield 5
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I really don't understand why Moyes hasn't tried to play Antonio and Scamacca together. It must be the only combo he hasn't tried yet.
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Willtell
11:48 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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Well I did say to start introducing Downes as an alternative to Soucek. Would 15 minutes against Everton or Chelsea have shown whether he can improve the team?
We only ever see Lanzini or Fornals as the alternative when there’s an injury or ban involved. Neither are as good so I wonder if Moyes would rather upset a junior rather than a senior player if the dressing room is unhappy…
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ironsofcanada
11:19 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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happygilmore 11:12 Mon Sep 19
I agree
The player deserves a chance at more games based on that and the fact that what is ahead of him as been generally poor.
But less not overhype one Conference League performance.
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happygilmore
11:12 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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Willtell 10:20 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
For me the biggest disappointment in Moyes's midfield was after Downes started for the first time against FCSB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One caveat with that performance. The opposition was poor. Every time he got the ball there didn't seem to be an opponent within 5 yards of him, giving him loads of time to pick his passes.
The assumption might be, that what Moyes sees in training day in day out, is that he is not up tp PL yet.
But, agree, we won't know until we see him play in PL games.
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ironsofcanada
10:42 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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stewie griffin 10:36 Mon Sep 19
Yep
Sad but true.
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twoleftfeet
10:41 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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No no no
Rice - Downes
Paqueta
Bowen - Scamacca - Antonio
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stewie griffin
10:36 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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I see. I wasn't replying to that post, just in general, anything that has antonio wide is not for me. Saw it before in our first two seasons of cuntery at the cesspit. Madness to repeat it.
Afforded myself a little chuckle at
"Antonio is still making things happen and was involved 2/3 of the goals we scored in the Premier League this year."
Thanks for that
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ironsofcanada
10:30 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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stewie griffin 10:19 Mon Sep 19
You did say "formation" as your were refering to one that had Antonio wide in the post before.
That formation, the one you were refering to, doesn't work because it includes 12 players. Is what I was saying, if that wasn't clear.
Dawson could replace Zouma in the middle but I think that position ideally needs to be more mobile with 3 at the back.
Antonio is still making things happen and was involved 2/3 of the goals we scored in the Premier League this year.
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Willtell
10:20 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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For me the biggest disappointment in Moyes's midfield was after Downes started for the first time against FCSB. He was MOTM and even ex-Arsenal striker Alan Smith kept mentioning how well Downes was playing on the BT commentary. He was clearly impressed.
You'd surely expect more opportunities for an exciting young player with top stats from the Championship to strengthen our failing midfield? Not for Moyes!
So why didn't he get more minutes in the next 2 games that were losses anyway? Can Moyes be scared of dropping Soucek? I doubt it but why then? Can someone tell me because it's one of life's mysteries to me?
It seems lots of fans rate Downes as well. It was outstanding for a young player and just what we need - a box to box midfield all rounder that tackles, intercepts, passes and makes himself available all the time. Young and ours so why not give him every chance to shine at PL level?
It's managerial incompetence frankly. No wonder so many youngsters want out of WH.
Any decent manager would start introducing Downes as Rice's partner and seeing how he stacks up in comparison to Soucek.
That leaves Paqueta, Benrahma or Fornals to compete for the AM spot. With Rice and Downes I reckon there'd be every chance it would work best for Paqueta but with the other two used to keep him on his toes.
Benrahma and Cornet compete for the LW spot but Fornals will never be a LWinger. As far as I'm concerned it's a crime to pick him there..
Antonio and Bowen compete for the RW although all those forward positions are interchangeable with Antonio, Bowen and Scamacca competing for CF. That line-up for me makes managerial complete sense. For these reasons alone I want Moyes gone. He's a managerail dinosaur...
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stewie griffin
10:19 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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Not sure I mentioned a formation, Canada son? Just wouldn't have Antonio on the wing.
Or up front, tbh.
Oh, and Dawson would be just about the first name on the teamsheet right now for me.
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ironsofcanada
10:17 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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stewie griffin 9:50 Mon Sep 19
That formation doesn't work because of too many players
But good teams make 3-5-2 work playing quite narrow up front. For a couple reasons.
1) The outside 2 of the 3 cbs need to be smart and mobile enough to cover. We have one in Kehrer, and whether Ogbonna can do it for a little while I don't know
2) You also have a couple covering midfielder that can slide over if needed.
It need to be coached well and have the right players.
On current form
----------Kehrer Zouma Ogbonna
? ------------------------------------------ Emerson
-----------------Rice Downes
------------------Paqueta
-------------Antonio Scamacca
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kylay
10:15 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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Rice should 100% be a 6. He's certainly most effective there. As an 8 he starts trying to do too much which hurts us both offensively and defensively. I also think Downes' pragmatism is a good fit for the 8. That would give us a sturdiness in transition.
-----------Rice---Downes
Antonio---Paqueta---Cornet
---------------Scamacca
And if Antonio isn't able to make it happen on the wing then we have Bowen, benny, or fornals to try there.
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happygilmore
10:12 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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---------------Onana----------------Rice----------------
Bowen --------------Zielinski---------------Kostic
CL Quality !!
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ironsofcanada
10:04 Mon Sep 19
Re: The midfield 5
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And Zico
I probably like it because there are 12 players.
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